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| Author | Subject | OracleDBA
Registered User
(2/14/01 1:51:44 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del All | how many hours you spend at the client
if you are hourly consultant, Do you come in at 9 dot, have half an hour of lnch and out by 5.30 or you guys stick around putting in extra hour or half without claiming.
| Jeremy Singer
Registered User
(2/14/01 2:17:40 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del | re:how many hours
I try to limit it to 40/wk.
Sometimes, there is a crunch and it could go to 45 or 50.
Sometimes its down to 35 if there is a lot going on in my life.
I see contracting as a way of managing my life, not of maximizing dollars.
I usually have a routine time I get in, but if something personal comes up, I change my hours. I'm not an employee.
| Jacob Schuetze
Registered User
(2/14/01 3:43:13 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del | Re: re:how many hours
Allright!
This is (almost) totally my attitude, but if they have standard operating hours, I try to work within them. I just had a discussion this morning, however, with my boss about hours. Apparently she's been covering my butt with the employees about when I come in, and she stated to me that she doesn't care much as long as I get my job done. That's the other part, I state up front that I'm going to do what needs to be done to get where we need to be, within reason (I'll work overtime, just not 90 hours a week!).
I agree, too, with the comment about life management. I have found in myself that even on my highest paying gig I had, I was looking at the extra pay as a way to have a more flexible lifestyle, not a way to get the most cash. I ended up somewhere between. I frequently didn't even put in 40 hours because I didn't have to. I got to spend more time at home with my family and still enjoy a very good income.
On the flipside, if things are tight, I *have* stayed on the clock at work with little to do so I could get the cash. I have also stayed on the clock if there was relevant stuff I could find to do that would also be beneficial to me (like play with brand X's EJB container or learn more about XML/XSL, etc).
| Tony Soprano SW Engineer
Unregistered User
(2/14/01 4:11:18 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del | Reminds me of the good old days...
My second contract assignement was with an aerospace company in Vermont. They were miserable to work for, and paid their regular employees pitifully low salaries. That, coupled with the isolation of Vermont made it next to impossible for them to recruit regular software engineers. So they won a big contract and had to staff it with contract people at a high rate. The contractors got paid for all the hours of overtime they worked. The managers got only their pitiful salaries and so the contract employees were getting far more than the managers. The managers would not refer to us a "contract employees" or "contract engineers" but derisively as "job shoppers" ... They made us punch a time clock when we entered or left the building. Further, they required us to arrive no later than 7:30am take an exact 30 minute lunch and then leave after 4:00pm. Violators were fired. I was a violator. On the coldest day on record in Vermont one winter the temperature was -35, with a wind chill of -80 and blowing snow - my car was frozen and I didn't come in. My boss fired my - nevermind I was ahead of schedule, I didn't make it in and rules are rules. I had a new job lined up in less than 24 hours.
| TomScott 
Moderator
(2/14/01 4:22:01 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del | Re: how many hours you spend at the client
I charge by the hour, but I'm C2C. I make it a point to set my own hours. I don't piss off the client, but I make sure there is no way anyone could mistake me for an employee. In my current contract, I work on-site 2 days a week, and off-site 3 days. When on site, I come in around 9am and leave around 5:30, generally an hour after everyone else comes and goes.
I'm through working 80 hour weeks, or even 60 hour weeks. Life's too short for that -- at least the part of my life that's left!
More info on Scott Consulting, Inc.
| David Cressey 
Registered User
(2/14/01 5:00:23 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del | Re: how many hours you spend at the client
It depends on the culture at the client's shop.
I like to bill for every hour, so if I work extra, I want to bill for it. I like to work every hour I bill, so I try to find soimething useful to do. I violated that rule just once, and I regretted it almost immediately.
DBA work (as opposed to DB development) can be frustrating in this regard. Sometimes, what they are paying you for is availability, but not production. How do you justify billing for that, to yourself, or to others?
You'd better justify billing for it, because, if you don't, you are going to be angry. And don't expect the client or the broker to feel good about it if you just bill for fewer hours. The broker is obviously not going to be thrilled. The client, less obviously, isn't ususally thrilled either.
Regards,
David Cressey
Not all those who wander are lost.
| AlCapone
Unregistered User
(2/14/01 5:14:23 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del | Good old days!!!
They were miserable to work for, and paid their regular employees pitifully low salaries.
Gee, was it because of the H1 workers had depressed the salaries?
That, coupled with the isolation of Vermont made it next to impossible for them to recruit regular software engineers.
What about the irregular ones? Like H1Bs.
They made us punch a time clock when we entered or left the building. Further, they required us to arrive no later than 7:30am take an exact 30 minute lunch and then leave after 4:00pm.
Oh the horror of making contractors work regular hours! What were they thinking?
| Bob McIlree
Registered User
(2/14/01 6:44:07 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del | Hours
Like Tom I work C2C and set my own hours. Obviously, the clients needs have to be provided for from an onsite perspective, but I am upfront from the very beginning with clients that I set my hours unless there is a compelling need to be onsite for something like meetings, etc.
There are some clients who balk and want me to keep FTE-like hours. I refuse to work with them under those circumstances because I usually have multiple assignments going on simultaneously or I want the time off for my family and me. I recently terminated a consulting contract with an outfit who demanded that I come in from 8:30-5:30 M-F, no exceptions. Screw them.
One area where setting ones own hours doesn't work well is in a prodcution support role - DBA, Sys Admin, etc. that usually means on-site, when they tell you to be there. Nature of the beast.
| tracyb
Registered User
(2/14/01 8:34:15 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del | Me too!
I was bored at my last gig, and for about 2 months, worked 3 days a week, spending more time with my family.
There are times when I've willingly put in longer hours - like when we put a contract on a house and I needed to come up with some extra cash for the down payment.
And of course, I'm flexible enough to know there are times the client really needs me to put in some extra hours (crunch times).
Fortunately, I've managed to avoid the clock-punching clients. My current client has a written policy about contractors badging in and out when they leave for lunch and when they go home, but as far as I've seen, no one actually complies with this policy (I know I haven't!)
Currently, I work an average 40 hour week. I'm only bound to time schedules because I take the train.
| Tony Soprano SW Engineer
Unregistered User
(2/14/01 8:54:14 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del | Long, long before HI-B...
| Homer
Registered User
(2/14/01 9:32:20 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del | I'll 3rd That
I usually work 40 hours. If I get stuck in a few late meetings and can't leave at quittin' time, I may have 42 for the week. I'm happy if I can take 1/2 day every other Friday to make the weekends seem longer. Of course, if crunch times arrives, I'll put in the OT and have worked a few weekends. As long as there's something to work on, I'll work on it. Otherwise, I'll save the client some money and myself some boredom.
| coder
Unregistered User
(2/14/01 11:42:06 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del | max those hours
I tend to go for stretches where I bill 50-70 hours, get ahead of schedule and *wow* the client, then I'll pull back to 40 for a couple of weeks and catch up on my personal life. I went into contracting so I could get paid for the OT that I have always worked anyway. I billed for 2600 hours last year and hope to match that this year.
My attitude is "make hay while the sun is shining". Someday the contracting gold rush may end, or I may end up a few weeks at home between gigs.
Before you caution me about burn-out, I burned out as an FT, and now I know how to pull back when I feel it coming on. I put in plenty of QT at home and on hobbies. And if I'm on a boring project then I'm out of there at 40 hours. But if I'm doing something interesting and the client has no problem paying OT, then I see no point in leaving money on the table!
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